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Talk:Homosexual behavior in animals

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[edit] descriptions of behavior

some descriptions are too loose and subject to interpretation, and not really describing actual events, such as in the dolphins section it says "ardent sexual play with each other." what is that? this article really needs some help —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.243.218.124 (talk) 07:37, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

I completely agree. It seems that we have all come to a conclusion (as the article name change and above discussions suggest) that animals exhibit homosexual behavior, and cannot be considered homosexual in the human sense and understanding of the word. As such, it is time to reorganise the article. I have begun with the Bonobos by referencing a scientific explanation for why the Bonobo exhibits homosexual behavior i.e. to diffuse tensions. The same should be done where possible for each species.
It is illogical for us not to take a scientific stance on this article. Opening with an image of Roy and Silo and the Bruce Bagemihl referencing fest seems to suggest that previous writers thought otherwise. As it is now, it offers little to the reader in the scientific sense, and shies away from what the vast majority of scientists believe is a purely instinctive, and in virtually all cases, a temporary aspect of animal behavior. Let's keep the general tone, bias and explanations in the article to the biologists (not human rights activists); then perhaps a section to Bagemihl, Roy and Silo and the scientifically contested school of thought which they belong to. That sort of bias better reflects the scientific community, and the NPOV nature of Wikipedia. If we have disallowed the religious from affecting the scientific bias of this page, then let's avoid a double standard by allowing a GLBT bias to exist in this one. Jaw101ie (talk) 11:36, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Heres the article in full. [1]. The article does not mention 'homosexual'. So what you have done is OR. See WP:NOR. Phoenix of9 (talk) 14:31, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
To clarify, if you wanna say something like 'animals exhibit homosexual behavior, and cannot be considered homosexual in the human sense and understanding of the word', the article should be talking about that. Phoenix of9 (talk) 14:36, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
That is in essence what the section "Applying the term "homosexual" to animals" is saying. It is also referencing Bagemihl, but he do give the subject a rather thorough treatment, so I feel referencing him is warranted. Petter Bøckman (talk) 18:58, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Reference for nasal sex

Hi, I'm currently translating this article to Chinese version. There may be more questions coming. First I have read about the Birds do it, bees do it... report in Timesonline.co.uk , it is full of helpful data. But it is being the sole source for the nasal sex behavior of Amazon River Dophin, well you can guess the report mentions no single thing about the River Dophin or the nasal sex. I wonder if the reference is misplaced or there's other source to support the River Dophin section. P.S. Page of reference Gay Penguins Resist is no longer available in 365gay.com, may need a mirror site for the article. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 11:19, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

From the Times article - A model — the one that invariably draws most giggles from the exhibition’s younger visitors — shows a male Amazonian river dolphin penetrating another’s blowhole. “This is the only example of nasal sex we have in nature,” Brockman observes. I've added the Bagemihl refs as well. -- Banjeboi 01:40, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Ah~~ sorry I'm so careless to miss that line. Thx. I added a line in my translation about the "sin(ning)/crime against nature" from medieval Christianity. But even the Anal sex#Christianity also lacks the source to support the claim. I understand that Timesonline.uk memtions about this particular info (maybe Bagemihl's document as well), just I am looking for other source over the journal source that writing about animals homosexuality. No single word about homo is involved in Council of Nablus. After googling, there's 1 personal site in Wiki format documents the history of homosexuality in the Middle Ages, [2]. If it is useful in the English version. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 02:53, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
No problem. And thanks for the link - William A. Percy would likely fly through as a reliable source so I would feel fine about using most of his published works as cites. How are you weaving it in? -- Banjeboi 14:51, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
After "because these findings seem to point to the natural occurrence of homosexuality in humans" I add this in my translation, "also it counters the 'sin against nature (peccatum contra naturam)' established since the Medieval Christianities [source]." If you're interested, I am working the translation in my ZH WP sandbox zh:user:Sameboat/sandbox. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 02:11, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Good call! And keep up the good work! -- Banjeboi 11:13, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] the name

Is there a correct name for 'homosexuality in animals'? To me the word homosexuality is only about people or other mammals which are of the 'homo' species--Xania talk 23:46, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

You're confusing two terms here. The root of the word "homosexuality" comes from homos meaning "same" not "homo" as in Homo Sapiens. See Homosexuality#Etymology and usage for a fuller explanation. Richerman (talk) 00:15, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
"or other mammals which are of the 'homo' species" The only extant species in the genus Homo is Homo sapiens. Good job showing your ignorance Xania. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.92.58.224 (talk) 14:53, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Hyena section

Does anyone have any idea why the hyena section is deleted every now and then?Petter Bøckman (talk) 14:08, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Because the research is, at best, divided. Sources used explain the historical misconceptions, which I think are useful to point out, as well as what some of the latest research has found. Banjeboi 14:24, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
So, citing bout sides get the section deleted? I fail to understand that stand.Petter Bøckman (talk) 19:55, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Sometimes people are bold and delete entire sections they don't agree with. Consensus builds articles partly in this way. They have been reverted each time so consensus has been to keep that content. Banjeboi 23:30, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Even your own content clearly states that it is a misconception that they display homosexual behavior. It should not be listed with the rest that do. That is poor writing. 144.92.58.224 (talk) 15:00, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Ah, but the thing is that they do that too! The females will mount each other. Petter Bøckman (talk) 13:19, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Only the juveniles will mount each other. That is a common part of play in all animals and not homosexual behavior. I agree that it (as well as some others possibly) should be moved to a separate section. Spidey104 (talk) 18:52, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
No one has written against my proposal to move it to a separate section since I proposed it almost a month ago. I don't want to change it if people disagree, but without dissent I see no reason not to change it. Spidey104 (talk) 21:20, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] "Same-sex Behavior Seen In Nearly All Animals"

Here is an article stating that same-sex sexual behavior is nearly universal in the animal kingdom: "Same-sex Behavior Seen In Nearly All Animals, Review Finds" (17 June 2009). Science Daily. — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 02:30, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Good find! Petter Bøckman (talk) 11:31, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Dogs and cats?

Great article, very interesting. One thing though. Is there nothing to be said about ordinary dogs and cats? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:41, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

They are covered under "In fact, apparent homosexual individuals are known from all of the traditional domestic species, from sheep, cattle and horses to hamsters and budgerigars". I should perhaps specify cats and dogs as examples. Petter Bøckman (talk) 18:09, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
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